Blue-On-Blue Violence

This is a sensitive GÇô even a touchy GÇô subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter GÇô a very keen ratter if we are honest GÇô we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either:

But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoplesGÇÖ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues.

I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me?

No where in your "quote" is any one actively encouraging or promoting botting. BTW the "leaked" version of that I have seen then goes on to provide the direction that members of that alliance should take to sort out the problem -> report suspects to diplomatic team and let alliance sort it out. You are intentionally taking things out of context to cause drama which raises the question:

I must have missed that part in the EULA that says alliances have to enforce CCP`s laws.

You don't read contracts when you sign them, do you?
........
You've got to learn to read between the lines, otherwise you're a f*$king lemming.

I don't support botting.

I don't have any issue though with an Alliance declaring rules of not grassing up people for doing it. Other players can do it, Gms can try to detect it and so on.

In real life if I park on a yellow line it's a fair cop if I get caught but I'd find it completely unacceptable if a mate called the Feds to grass me up.

Outlawing the practice of informing on people is not the same as legalising a practice.

And if you don't like Goon CSMs vote for someone else and encourage others to do likewise.

If Goon A report's Goon B's botting activity and KEEPS HIS MOUTH SHUT then how does anyone know that he reported Goon B?

And for the sensible Goons (are there any?), if you think you can be threatened with expulsion for bot-reporting, just remember that no CEO will know, or can know, if you reported the cheating, thieving SOB!!

I think CCP should take rules against botting further:

If you know about someone botting, and there is evidence to prove which you knew but never acted - you're also up for the same ban as the person whom was actualy using the bot.

in real life, if you know someone who held up a bank or a grocery store and you do not let the authorities know, you're guilty by association.

Eve is real, right? so lets get with the real punishment that needs to be dished out to the real arrogant wankers that think they're above/beyond eve's T&C/EULA. Tho, that would require CCP to grow a pair, which i realy dont think will happen any time soon.

Corporations can do literally anything that is not against the EULA. That includes telling their members how to conduct themselves if they wish to remain a part of the corp.

Now, botting is against the EULA. However, failing to report someone for botting is not. Therefore, it is entirely within a corporation or alliances rights to demand that its members not report bots. If the members have a problem with it, the solution is simple: Leave the corp.

Your tears are delicious.

In a game where everyone bots; the only thing left to do is bot. Seriously, the onus is on CCP to fix the game, not the players.

A point the Op needs to take on board:

This is essentially the alliance saying: don't shoot your mouth off, don't cause internal ructions that damage us all, pass to the diplomats who will sort it out. While you may disagree with that, CCP have set a precedent, if they see that the Goons directors are doing their bit to limit the rule breaking they will be happy.

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah waaaah waaaah waaaah waaaah waaaah waaaah ..........

the **** should i care.

shoot your mouth off, does not mean shooting with lasers...

Source?
I'm not doubting you, it'd just take someone INCREDIBLY THICK to post an alliance update which condones botting that obviously.

As far as the bit that states if you report any member of GSF for botting you will be kicked.
Well all things considered, that in of itself is actually within their rights.
(CCP does not enforce corp or alliances rules in regaurds to recruiting or removal of members)
As for the rest, well that is up to CCP.

All things considered if the OP was really concerned they should have sent the message to CCP under a petition and let them figure it out.

To that I say TROLL........

Notice even how he was carefull enough not to make any direct mention to botting whatsoever. Dude understands the legal system and he does his best to bend the rules thats why people call him a jerk. He bends, but he doesn't breaks.. so anyone who complains is just doing useless whining because nothing is going to be done about it.

To the OP. C'est la vie.

There is nothing on the EULA that states that i am required to report a bot when i see one and there never will be because recognizing a BOT is by default done entirely by the use of circumstantial evidence. So you cannot punish me because i haven't reported someone who i can't prove with 100% certainty is a bot.

And since nobody is OBLIGED to report a bot, they can't punish anyone from strongly suggesting that someone else under his command doesnt do it either. Reporting a bot is your right? Well, so is speaking in local chat... and nobody does jackshit about alliance leaders who kick members for speaking in local chat.

In a sense, players ARE obligated to report botting. Just because there is no threat to players who spot a bot and not report it doesn't mean it's OK to not report bots.

Moving on from that, has there been any bot banned at all from no petition raised about it?

Has CCP banned bots from no leads what so ever? Think about it.

TL;DR OP selectively cannibalized what Endie said in his announcement to try and smear goons

"Blue-On-Blue Violence

One of our illustrious members (let's call him "Ibertizzle") keeps losing Tengus to Russians and French people. This is a sensitive - even a touchy - subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter - a very keen ratter if we are honest - we have one rule in Goonswarm: we don't **** other goons. Oh and we don't play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either: that's Darius Johnson's job. So two rules. And there's the one about how nobody mentions the Mittani's occasional chin tuft; and the localised No Digis or DBRBs rules. I could go on. Ok, on reflection we live in a hidebound and overly legislated nanny state. But we definitely don't **** goons. Now I know that "Ibertizzle" has probably just been insulting people constantly in local and challenging them to 1 v 7s at the sun. Which is fine: honour demanded that he repeatedly die for his offences.

But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoples' liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-******* to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues. And by allowing one, well-justified blue-shooting case to go unpunished we basically open the portal to a hellish other-dimension of horror and chaos which ends with "hilariously" wrecked amok freighters on the VFK undock. Which sounds good but involves a lot of paperwork.

The correct approach is to speak to your CEO, who will submit form 240a together with the mandatory handling fee of 150 million ISK to the overworked diplomacy team, who will curse me loudly for putting that in there then go about finding a solution. Trust me: they have his number on speed-dial by now."

You just noticed I have "Goonswarm Federation" under my name?

I dont bot, nor do I support it, but is it every ******* corp or alliance's job to police this game?

No. It's CCP's.

That's all I get from the statement in the OP.

Test alliance does the same thing, one time a old corp mate of mine found a botter and killed him... it turned out to be leetcheese, a military director of test at the time, someone also reported him... which resulted in the guy loosing about... idk 5-15 bil...

Regardless to say, test forced the corp to kick him...

So yeah, its common practice within that coalition that your not allowed to kill or report botters if they are blue

Yes, what is Fatal Ascention doing about Dec Co's bots? Ignoring them i bet.

Do I really need to link false dichotomy here? Really?

There's nothing in the EULA or TOS saying that you can't tell others not to report rulebreakers, or that you can't punish people who do.

Alliances are not responsible for the actions of an individual.

Wrong
A person or persons in the Goon leadership have stated, not the alliance.
And once again it comes down to I am telling you go jump off that bridge.
My response is, that is nice you first.

Now if player (A) reported player (B) for botting to director (C)
Can any of the above be banned.
NO

IT is all talk, and nothing more.
CCP makes the determination if a person is a Botter not the players.

Anyway, ...
Argueing with stupid sheep makes you look stupid too, so please stop.


Yours sincerely,
Daddy. ^^

Edit: We've got Kangaroos in Sch+¦nbrunn. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sch+¦nbrunn_Zoo)

Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it.

You need to let this go.
This topic would have gone alot farther and been alot more productive if you would have not pointed fingers.
Even your title is set up to inflame, you could have said 0.0 Alliance "legalising" Botting!!

Nobody is argueing that what was done was questionable.
But that is CCP's call on what to do about it and if it is bannable.
You need to report it and move on.

Hey OP, you're asking for an unenforceable rule. It's like the "no running" rule in elementary school.

Great idea A+++. Gonna put my bots in hostile alliances just to get reported before they catch me.

Apostle, did you get scammed by goons? In all seriousness I cant understand your hatred for goonswarm.

We love you.

What we don't want is witch hunts, goon on goon trolling, and drama queens going around threatening to get people banned, or bragging about getting people banned. That creates hard feelings and tears apart alliance cohesion. So reporting falls under the "no goonfucking" rules, so that when people do it they will do it quietly. No drama.

Also, Endie is a certified goodposter, he makes good posts. Sometimes making good posts means massaging the text to get the reaction(s) you want. Remember that these "internal" updates aren't leaked, we send them to evenews24, kugu, SA, etc., ourselves.

Have I really pissed someone off that much? (maybe I'd make a great Goon??)

I take no solice, I think it's just sad that Goons have to do what they're doing to sabotage this topic. Above all, I wonder why?

It is hilarious. One goon sees a funny thread, and mentions it in chat. Other goons go look, because we like funny threads. And we love attention. <3 Thanks.

If everyone jumped to conclusions like this ****** OP people would be calling INS on every Mexican they see walking down the street in Arizona as an illegal alien.

Or fools have two.

Penif alt detected.

He means Penifsmash, a dood in PL

Just stopping by this horrible thread to point out that the report bot function is anonymous to users and doesn't send a little flag to to the ceo or anything ok well later gator.

This thread is glorious.